The Five Elements Wing Tsun Kung Fu Association has been founded

Based on a joint decision of the leaders of our schools, previously belonging to the Hungarian Wing Tsun Kung Fu Association, the Five Elements Wing Tsun Kung Fu association has been formed. The schools joining in this decision declare that they break their ties with the Hungarian Wing Tsun Kung Fu Association led by Dai Si-Kung Norbert Máday and continue to practice and teach the martial art of Wing Tsun Kung Fu in an association fully independent.

The Reasons

Naturally, there are questions which will surely arise in connection with our decision. In the following we would like to address the most likely questions.

First of all, it has to be said that it was not easy to get to such decision. We went through these questions ourselves again and again and engaged in endless discussions about them. We would like to emphasize that the decision is not just the decision of separate individuals. It has been made by a collective of high ranking masters, instructors and students of the Hungarian Wing Tsun Association, who practiced Wing Tsun for years and even decades. This was a mutual, not an unanimous decision, made by our free will and we all agree that for us this is the right path.

The Number One Reason

Instructors of the Wing Tsun Kung Fu Association are being obliged to learn and to teach (!) fencing with the traditional Hungarian sabre.

This May Dai Si-Kung Norbert Máday made an unanimous decision without asking even the leading instructors of the organization: we had to start to practice fencing with the sabre. What is more, in September, after a brief preparatory period, it will be compulsory for the kung fu instructors to open fencing schools of their own, without considering their opinion to the matter.

Even though that we believe it is very important to protect and preserve Hungarian culture and traditions, therefore also the art of fencing with the traditional Hungarian sabre, we believe that we can preserve our Hungarian identity even without being regularly forced to practice this form of martial art.

In addition to this we believe that Dai Si-Kung Norbert Máday should not try to force his worldview on instructors and on students consequently limiting their fundamental right to the freedom of conscience and of forming their own opinions.

Also, in addition to what have been said before, there are other reasons why we feel it is problematic to introduce fencing to the Wing Tsun gym.

Problems with the Techniques

The movements of Wing Tsun Kung Fu are truly unique and are not compatible with the movements of fencing. (Dai Si-Kung Norbert Máday has been condemning the European Wing Tsun Organization with this very reasoning since they introduced the teaching of Escrima.)

 

Characteristics of Wing Tsun
Characteristics of fencing with the traditional Hungarian sabre
Frontal stance Side stance
Knees locked and kept in a tight position Knees are far apart to balance out the added weight of the sabre
0-100 percent weight distribution when advancing 50-50 percent weight distribution when advancing
No lifting of body weight when advancing Lifting of body weight when advancing
Attack and defense in the same time There is no in simultaneity in timing the defense and the attack

As it is obvious there are huge differences between the two styles of martial arts. It is not just that they are not alike, they indeed contradict each other.

Based on this it is safe to say that the practice of fencing with the sabre has harmful effects to the learning process of the Wing Tsun students. For example, it is unadvised for a student to practice locking the knees in the basic Wing Tsun stance for a few hours, then to practice in the widely spread fencing stance for another two hours.

The traditional system of Wing Tsun Kung Fu has its own weapons, the long pole and the butterfly knives, but, however, there are rumors which say otherwise, fencing with the traditional Hungarian sabre is not part of the Wing Tsun system and is in no way a preparation for or introduction to the Bart Cham Dao, the techniques of the butterfly knives.

Financial Reasons

The majority of Wing Tsun students and practitioners regularly exceed their financial possibilities in order to be able to finance their participation in the Wing Tsun trainings. They do this because of their love for Wing Tsun and because of their bond to their Kung Fu brothers. They put up with unexpected and unreasonable costs, even with ones which are unrelated to Wing Tsun itself. In the Hungarian Wing Tsun Association the regular “taxation” of the instructors is getting more and more frequent. These regular “taxes” include but are not limited to:

  • Participation in an increasing number of seminars and camps, for which each school has to supply a minimum number of students who would take part in the seminar, no matter how many (or few) students the school has
  • Compulsory purchase of a given number of books and DVDs which should – but usually cannot – be sold by the instructors
  • Compulsory purchase of a given number of books written by Dai Si-Kung Máday and which are unrelated to Wing Tsun
  • Financial contribution to issues unrelated to Wing Tsun or to the matters of the organization

For many instructors these alone were enough to give up their beloved form of martial arts and to leave their kung fu brothers. And even for the ones who stayed it is more and more difficult to pay the rising amount of the above mentioned “unexpected taxes” in a time when many Wing Tsun schools already operate with huge losses. The fact that they stayed was only because of their love for Wing Tsun and for the community.

Referring back to the first reason we would like to add that this, already difficult, financial situation is currently just being made by worse by the cost associated to fencing (t-shirt, seminar fees, practice sabre, hand protector, helmet, “hussar” uniform).

This makes the financial situation of the instructors impossible.

Moral Reasons

A student has to be loyal to their master. This is true, but it is also true the other way around. A master has a responsibility for their student. Today the very elite of the association, the masters who spent years or even decades from their lives, teaching hundreds of students, making sacrifices for the Wing Tsun every day, are being betrayed by obliging them to practice fencing. And if they refuse – on any grounds – they are casted out from the Wing Tsun family. There have been a number of cases when an instructor was literally thrown out, with obviously made up reasons, because of this.

This way the most faithful students, the master of Wing Tsun, are being betrayed.

The Hungarian Wing Tsun Association is seemingly ready to compensate for the losses, however. The leadership would like to produce a new generation of instructors as soon as possible (while numerous certificates of valid and paid for master exams are being held back). This devaluates the work of decades and proves that Dai Si-Kung Norbert Máday does not value his instructors to any degree. What is more their human dignity is being regularly violated by Dai Si-Kung Máday, seemingly on purpose.

There are many sign which shows us that Dai Si-Kung Norbert Máday wants to transform the association into an association which practices both Wing Tsun and fencing. For the instructors it is already obligatory to practice both forms of martial arts, whether they want to or not.

All these facts put us, masters of Wing Tsun, in a very difficult situation. Either we close our schools and do not teach anymore or stay loyal to Wing Tsun and to our students and create a possibility for them to practice Wing Tsun under acceptable conditions.

We have made our decision and hereby found the Five Elements Wing Tsun Association. Its aim is to preserve the Hungarian Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu tradition and to create a safe place for its masters and practitioners to practice this unique form of martial arts.


Debrecen, 07/14/2012
  • Róbert Török – 5th master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • József Bányász – 3rd master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • István Szodrai – 3rd master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Péter Bordán – 2nd master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Imre Valóczki – 2nd master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Ádám Nagy – 2nd master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Attila Laczkovich – 2nd master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • György Juhász – 1st master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • dr. Noémi Fórizs – 1st master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Ljudvik Orosz – 1st master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Tamás Barta – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Imre Mohácsi – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Pál Burghardt – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • László Mohácsi – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Béla Vajda – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • László Török – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Sengpraseuth Phrakonkham – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Zoltán Nagy – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Imre Nagy – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Sándor Veress – instructor Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu

Preliminary answers to the probable steps of the Hungarian Wing Tsun Kung Fu Association

Claiming back the students of the Five Elements Wing Tsun Association

The students of each and every school decided by themselves, based on their own free will to join our association. We would hereby like to note that students of a kung fu school are primarily the students of their instructor, their master. They were the ones who made it possible for the students to immerse in the art of Wing Tsun, they paid for the gym they trained in, they paid for advertisements and marketing and the Hungarian Wing Tsun association did not in any way contribute to these costs. Therefore it is in the instructor’s right and in the same time their obligation to provide the right circumstances for the practice of Wing Tsun. Therefore the students primarily belong to the instructor and only secondarily to the association. So the association has no right whatsoever to claim back the students of our schools. Everybody is, was and will be given the right to free choice, therefore there is absolutely no basis to forcefully claim back our students.

Opportunity for self-development

All students and masters will have the opportunity to develop and to deepen their knowledge of Wing Tsun. Dai Si-Kung Róbert Török has already mastered all the bare hand techniques of Wing Tsun and the majority of weapon based techniques, which gives a powerful professional basis to our organization.

Being a “fraud”

The Five Elements Wing Tsun Association has a deep and diverse professional background for which the proof is the grades of its instructors in the Leung Ting system. It is hereby declared that the instructors will in no way change the techniques, principles and methods they were taught.

The loss of student and master grades

Our association accepts all grades previously acquired in the Leung Ting system, they will not be lost and they can be transferred to our system.