2nd official declaration

Since the foundation of our new association there has have been some events that we feel we must react to. From the various responses we think that there are a lot of questions and misunderstandings. In this declaration we would like to answer these questions and clear out the misunderstandings.


First of all we would like to thank all who trusted, encouraged and supported us. Mostly we would like to thank our students for – expressing their loyalty and trust towards their masters – immediately and joining the newly founded 5 Element Wing Tsun Kung Fu Association by their own free will although the chance was given to them to choose freely. Even though the effort of the old association that after getting in connection with them they were tried to be influenced in their decision by devaluating the prestige of the new association and by discrediting the masters. We hereby protest against these outrageous offences and harassments.

We received a lot of congratulations and encouragements personally, through phone calls and mails both from Hungary and abroad. These letters and phone calls from old masters and student give strength to all members of the association. Also making us feel that we have created something good and that we are following the right path. Although we received some negative criticism their number is insignificant compared to all the positive comments we got. (To all the swearing and discrediting that are not worthy of a Kung Fu master we did not and will not pay any attention.)

However, there are some questions and misunderstandings to which we would like to react.

The open communication and discussion

A few people have raised their voice regarding the way we left the old association and formed the new one. To be precise their problem is that we “planned secretly” and “did not have the courage” to announce it directly to Si-Kung Norbert Máday that we are leaving the association; and also that we did not mentioned our concerns about the problems that can come up with the learning and teaching of the fencing with the traditional Hungarian saber within the Hungarian Wing Tsun Association.

For those who do not know Si-Kung Norbert Máday the question of coming up front and telling him about our concerns may seem obvious. However, for those who know him well it is clear that these kinds of discussions are not possible. It is just an illusion. As students we also did not know this and saw it as many see it today, however later, as instructors and masters, we faced that unfortunately these kind discussions are not possible to have.

As of many years of experience – even decades – as instructors we feel that the totalitarian organization and control of the Hungarian Wing Tsun Organization makes it impossible to speak up freely in case of problems or remarks. We are certain that if we had expressed our dislikes of the fencing we would not have received any understanding. (Some instructors who did not participate in or passively resisted against the fencing trainings already received verbal warnings). Meanwhile those masters who would have raised their voices would be seen negatively by the leaders of the association, making it impossible for the students and for themselves to train, and to develop their knowledge and to progress within the grading system.

“Fencing is not mandatory”

It is a fact that fencing is not an option for the masters as it is part of the instructors’ trainings in Kecskemét. Although a lot of master gave voice to their dissatisfaction to their training partners none of them went home after the Wing Tsun trainings (before the beginning of the fencing).

It is also a trend, that at more and more Wing Tsun seminars fencing trainings become a part of the seminar and a minimum number of participants has to be provided by the organizing master. It is also obvious that an instructor with a Wing Tsun school cannot make a student come to the fencing training without himself/herself joining it.

For answering the question of “whether it is mandatory or not” everyone should decide it according to this but keep in mind that it is just the beginning phase of learning – and teaching – the fencing.

The titles in the association and their uses.

In our first declaration we described our use of the titles, but now we would like to describe exactly what we use and why. The biggest criticism we received was about the use of the title “Master of Masters” and that why our leader uses the Si-Kung or grandfather title.


As we have mentioned these titles primary mark the positions within the association. To clear it out it was not the goal of the association or its leader to put him in front of any other association leader. The intention of the Five Elements Wing Tsun Kung Fu Association was to create the family based hierarchy system that was formed by Grandmaster Leung Ting and was defined by him. Because of this every instructor who has their own school has the title of Si-Fu (father). Si-Fu is a person who has children so in this case who has students. Róbert Török is titled as Si-Fu within his own school and this title is used by his students. The leader and instructor of the Si-Fu-s is the Si-Kung (Grandfather). As Róbert Török is the leader of the association and he teaches the masters the title Si-Kung is given to him. In the Leung Ting system every master with a uniform with a thin red stripe officially deserves the title of Si-Fu while the ones with thick red stripe the Si-Kung. These are incorrectly not used in the Hungarian Wing Tsun Organization but we are using this family title system.

Master of Masters

In our grading system the group “Master of Masters” can be misleading as for a lot of people it may suggest that Róbert Török wants to flaunt with his knowledge and position. In reality this title has only practical use: in Five Element Wing Tsun Kung Fu the title “Master of Masters” has only the meaning that the given master has students who also received the master title and lead Kung Fu schools (deserving the title Si-Fu). For this the Master of Masters title is for regional leaders, for those masters who has Si-Fu titled students and therefore they deserve the title Si-Kung. This is given to any master who reaches this level. To simplify it, the master of masters is for those masters who teach other masters.

From whom we are going to learn? How are we going to develop?

This was asked by a lot of people as a criticism. The reason behind this question is that in the Hungarian Wing Tsun Association it was indoctrinated to everybody that they are never going to get to the end of the Wing Tsun training material and will never learn the whole Wing Tsun system, they will never learn the things that Si-Fu knows. There are business reasons behind this “fact”.

To clear it out: although the Wing Tsun training material is huge and takes approximately a life time to learn every part of it but this does not mean that the training material is infinite and cannot be learnt fully. To put it simply the system includes: 4 barehanded forms (Siu Nim Tau, Chum Kiu, Biu Jee, Muk Yan Chong) and the corresponding chi-sau sections and with their applications. 2 forms with weapons (Luk Dim Boon Kwun, Bart Cham Dao) with their applications. Those who learnt these learnt the Wing Tsun system. Though there can be arguments about the level of knowledge (when is it counted as learnt for a technique, Chi-Sau or application?) our leader Róbert Török has obtained the knowledge of most parts of the Wing Tsun system. (He has been studying the double-knives techniques from Si-Kung Norbert Máday for years now and reached almost the end of it. Though he did not finish it entirely it remained his goal to acquire the remaining parts.) This gives a very serious professional basis for our association.

In our association everybody is given the possibility of learning and practicing the whole system of Leung Ting Wing Tsun. The chance of development and professional career is given to every student and instructors.

“The only reason for quitting was the fencing”

We want to emphasize that although the main reason for quitting was fencing this was not the only one. The recent financial and ethical problems (detailed in our previous declaration) moved us towards the decision as much as the fencing.

As we believe we have answered all the possible questions we consider these issues closed.

The founding meeting

Here we would like to announce that we held our founding meeting where we discussed and with common agreement established the goals of the association and our plans for the future. We have started the work as an association and also agreed on the central instructors’ trainings starting in August.

We are happy to announce that at this meeting new instructors expressed their intent to join our association:

  • Péter Szabó 1st master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Krisztián Csomós 1st master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu
  • Attila Buglyó 1st 1st master grade Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu

Finally we would like to emphasize again that the Five Elements Wing Tsun Association is a constructive, forward-looking organization based on professional values. For this we distance ourselves from every accusation and provocation. We continue our work by strengthening our association and our schools. The goal of our association is still to teach and popularize the martial art system created by Grandmaster Leung Ting preserving its techniques, clearness and unique form.

Meanwhile, we would not like to question the right of neither the Hungarian Wing Tsun Association nor other organizations composed of previous members of the HWTO to practice and teach Wing Tsun. We would, however, like to preserve our own techniques and the independence of the association.

Our association is open for everybody who wants to study the beautiful martial art of Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kung Fu in a peaceful and professional environment. We ensure all of our students the possibility of (self-)development. There are no secret techniques or sections. At us anybody who fulfills the requirements can learn the complete Leung Ting Wing Tsun system.

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